Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions

[Indira]

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.periphs.printers
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions.
Historical content remains viewable.

An updated web-searchable no-login web-search archive that reports a unique
URL will need to be located that allows people to search before posting to
the c.p.p. newsgroup & which allows unique references to recent articles.

[Nuno Silva]

Post by Indira
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.periphs.printers
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or
subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
An updated web-searchable no-login web-search archive that reports a unique
URL will need to be located that allows people to search before posting to
the c.p.p. newsgroup & which allows unique references to recent articles.

Proper unique references for USENET posts were, BTW, not available from
Google Groups for a while now (and, I'm guessing, still aren't). Those
are Message-Ids. These days, I think all you can get from Google Groups
is a link to the Google Groups interface, nothing "interoperable". At
most, you can try to use the Date: and Subject: to look the post up in a
proper archive.

IMHO a decent web-based search/archival interface for posts should both
support lookup by this ID and getting the ID for a given post, if it's
not already built around these IDs as message identifiers in its own
URLs and so on.

[Indira]

Post by Nuno Silva
Proper unique references for USENET posts were, BTW, not available from
Google Groups for a while now (and, I'm guessing, still aren't). Those
are Message-Ids. These days, I think all you can get from Google Groups
is a link to the Google Groups interface, nothing "interoperable". At
most, you can try to use the Date: and Subject: to look the post up in a
proper archive.
IMHO a decent web-based search/archival interface for posts should both
support lookup by this ID and getting the ID for a given post, if it's
not already built around these IDs as message identifiers in its own
URLs and so on.

+1

While you're almost certainly aware of <http://al.howardknight.net/>
there are other ways to construct a URL based on the Message-ID.

http://news.chmurka.net/mid.php?mid=ur8tvu$2kvca$***@paganini.bofh.team
http://usenet.ovh/index.php?article=ual&msgid=ur8tvu$2kvca$***@paganini.bofh.team

Still... there was merit in having a Usenet-only keyword search engine that
was provided by dejanews (which Google took over) and which was available
to everyone with just a web browser, and which only searched Usenet and
which cost nothing which allowed the user to read the entire thread - not
just one post like Howard Knight does - and which allowed users to
reference the post to others who also had only a web browser,
etc).

If you want to search before you post, then there will probably be new
engines that come up, although none with the retention that Google had.

For example
http://comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com

But that web site by David Cavion is no longer maintained once he got a
full-time job and now has no time to maintain it.

The Usenet-only replacement search engine needs to be free to all, with
just a browser, not needing an account, and having infinite retention.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Indira
Still... there was merit in having a Usenet-only keyword search engine that
was provided by dejanews (which Google took over) and which was available
to everyone with just a web browser, and which only searched Usenet and
which cost nothing which allowed the user to read the entire thread - not
just one post like Howard Knight does - and which allowed users to
reference the post to others who also had only a web browser,
etc).

However I gave up on searching in Google Groups years ago when the
search function mysteriously became less effective. I instead
switched to searching it via web search engines.

Post by Indira
If you want to search before you post, then there will probably be new
engines that come up, although none with the retention that Google had.
For example
http://comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com
But that web site by David Cavion is no longer maintained once he got a
full-time job and now has no time to maintain it.

I saw that as a reason why he didn't finish implementing all his
desired features such as posting support, but what's wrong with
Narkive as-is for browsing/searching posts like in GG?

Using "site:comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com" at the end of a web
search query in DuckDuckGo (or probably others, but that's what I
use), you can search the group via Narkive. Its archive doesn't
include the earlier posts that Google got from Dejanews, but at
least Google is keeping them online still too, for now.

[Indira]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
I saw that as a reason why he didn't finish implementing all his
desired features such as posting support, but what's wrong with
Narkive as-is for browsing/searching posts like in GG?
Using "site:comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com" at the end of a web
search query in DuckDuckGo (or probably others, but that's what I
use), you can search the group via Narkive. Its archive doesn't
include the earlier posts that Google got from Dejanews, but at
least Google is keeping them online still too, for now.

There's another archive which isn't reported anywhere except in
this very one thread, which is https://usenetarchives.com/

But what is needed is a good set of search engines specifically tailored
for Usenet newsgroups which takes into account their header information.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Indira

Post by Computer Nerd Kev
I saw that as a reason why he didn't finish implementing all his
desired features such as posting support, but what's wrong with
Narkive as-is for browsing/searching posts like in GG?
Using "site:comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com" at the end of a web
search query in DuckDuckGo (or probably others, but that's what I
use), you can search the group via Narkive. Its archive doesn't
include the earlier posts that Google got from Dejanews, but at
least Google is keeping them online still too, for now.

There's another archive which isn't reported anywhere except in
this very one thread, which is https://usenetarchives.com/

It seems to require Javascript, so that rules it out for me.

Post by Indira
But what is needed is a good set of search engines specifically tailored
for Usenet newsgroups which takes into account their header information.

OK, but that hasn't got much to do with Google Groups discontinuing
their Usenet support. Its search hasn't been very good for a long
time already.

[Indira]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Indira
But what is needed is a good set of search engines specifically tailored
for Usenet newsgroups which takes into account their header information.

OK, but that hasn't got much to do with Google Groups discontinuing
their Usenet support. Its search hasn't been very good for a long
time already.

Let's put that into perspective, given I've been using the Google Groups
Usenet-only search since the dejanews days, where I'd qualify that
assessment by agreeing that it sucked - but it was the best we had.

My assessment:
1. The Google Groups web-based Usenet search, as you noted, stunk
compared to the normal Google search engine everyone knows about.

2. However... it was worlds better than *any* other Usenet-only
web based no-account-needed anyone-can-use-it engine out there.

This is all we've got now, that's updated, as far as I know, where
what would be nice is if people who know more add to the list.

No-account-needed web-paged general-use Usenet-only search engines:
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.periphs.printers> deprecated 22Feb24
<https://comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com/>
<https://pi-dach.dorfdsl.de/rocksolid/search.php>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/thread.php?group=comp.periphs.printers>
<https://archive.org/details/usenethistorical>
<https://usenetarchives.com/>

Message-ID search engines (which aren't even close to the same thing).
<http://al.howardknight.net/>
<http://news.chmurka.net/mid.php>
<http://usenet.ovh/index.php?article=ual>
<https://www.novabbs.com/SEARCH/search_nocem.php>

[Nuno Silva]

Post by Indira
For example
http://comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com
But that web site by David Cavion is no longer maintained once he got a
full-time job and now has no time to maintain it.

Narkive is proving to be useless here: I was trying to check how much it
had in the interface, if it had proper threading and so on... first few
attempts to load threads gave me 500. After that I think it loaded
correctly once or twice. After that, I keep being asked to prove I'm a
human, which I guess will require javascript.

This seems to repeat itself quite often. Once it was working again, I
was able to load content only once, after that it once again calls me a
"bot" with a 429.

Let's say I'm not enjoying Narkive's current usability. It used to work
much better several months/years ago.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Nuno Silva

Post by Indira
For example
http://comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com
But that web site by David Cavion is no longer maintained once he got a
full-time job and now has no time to maintain it.

Narkive is proving to be useless here: I was trying to check how much it
had in the interface, if it had proper threading and so on... first few
attempts to load threads gave me 500. After that I think it loaded
correctly once or twice. After that, I keep being asked to prove I'm a
human, which I guess will require javascript.
This seems to repeat itself quite often. Once it was working again, I
was able to load content only once, after that it once again calls me a
"bot" with a 429.
Let's say I'm not enjoying Narkive's current usability. It used to work
much better several months/years ago.

Sounds like what happens when a website is trying to combat a DDoS
attack. But I just tried it myself and it's working fast and
efficiently as ever, so either the problem's fixed or it's
something to do with your IP address or internet connection.

[Nuno Silva]

Post by Computer Nerd Kev

Post by Nuno Silva

Post by Indira
For example
http://comp.periphs.printers.narkive.com
But that web site by David Cavion is no longer maintained once he got a
full-time job and now has no time to maintain it.

Narkive is proving to be useless here: I was trying to check how much it
had in the interface, if it had proper threading and so on... first few
attempts to load threads gave me 500. After that I think it loaded
correctly once or twice. After that, I keep being asked to prove I'm a
human, which I guess will require javascript.
This seems to repeat itself quite often. Once it was working again, I
was able to load content only once, after that it once again calls me a
"bot" with a 429.
Let's say I'm not enjoying Narkive's current usability. It used to work
much better several months/years ago.

Sounds like what happens when a website is trying to combat a DDoS
attack. But I just tried it myself and it's working fast and
efficiently as ever, so either the problem's fixed or it's
something to do with your IP address or internet connection.

An update on this: it indeed seemed to be temporary, since then I've
never had the same problem again.

The threads in this group that were unavailable (showing 500 instead)
have been fixed too.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Indira
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.periphs.printers
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or
subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.

Suppose I can remove my "X-No-Archive: Yes" now to prevent from getting
my postings archived?

Although Gmane and others might still honor it.

[Indira]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Suppose I can remove my "X-No-Archive: Yes" now to prevent from getting
my postings archived?

Good point!
It's ironic. But it's now no longer needed for Google groups archives.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Although Gmane and others might still honor it.

Is Gmane still around?
http://gmane.org/post.php

I used to use gmane, years ago, via a normal nntp newsreader at
news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank
(i.e., I didn't use the mail-to-news gateway) in order to post to
gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user
gmane.linux.centos.general
etc.

But I thought that died (along with the Mozilla nntp server
atnews.mozilla.org:119 blank/blank
for posting to mozilla.support.firefox & mozilla.support.thunderbird
which, I think, no longer exists.
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ

https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.thunderbird
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.thunderbird/c/LjUuhd9rYi8

In summary - aren't they both already long dead?

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Post by Indira

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Suppose I can remove my "X-No-Archive: Yes" now to prevent from getting
my postings archived?

Good point!
It's ironic. But it's now no longer needed for Google groups archives.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Although Gmane and others might still honor it.

Is Gmane still around?
http://gmane.org/post.php

Yes, but it's now at gmane.io instead of gmane.org. I don't know
what it has to do with X-No-Archive though, because it doesn't
carry Usenet groups (just mailing lists and RSS feeds).

Post by Indira
I used to use gmane, years ago, via a normal nntp newsreader at
news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank
(i.e., I didn't use the mail-to-news gateway) in order to post to
gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user
gmane.linux.centos.general
etc.
But I thought that died (along with the Mozilla nntp server
atnews.mozilla.org:119 blank/blank

Gmane.org was sold, but the buyers didn't do anything with it, so
its creator restarted it at gmane.io, now only via NNTP, without
the Web interfaces.

So replace news.gmane.org with news.gmane.io and it's just like old
times. Except that mailing lists are almost as unpopular now as
Usenet is.

[Nuno Silva]

Post by Indira

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Suppose I can remove my "X-No-Archive: Yes" now to prevent from getting
my postings archived?

Good point!
It's ironic. But it's now no longer needed for Google groups archives.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Although Gmane and others might still honor it.

Is Gmane still around?
http://gmane.org/post.php
I used to use gmane, years ago, via a normal nntp newsreader at
news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank
(i.e., I didn't use the mail-to-news gateway) in order to post to
gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user
gmane.linux.centos.general
etc.

I think (I might be misremembering) that Gmane over network news always
worked; Lars at some point might have decided not to work on the web
interface anymore (possibly because of troll lawyers), but the service
itself remained on-line (again IIRC, and except DNS issues and changes).

Linking to posts on Gmane can be done like for other news servers

news://gmane.io/message-id

Although there might be another preferred format for such addresses, I
think this format works both in lynx and SeaMonkey Navigator.

Post by Indira
But I thought that died (along with the Mozilla nntp server
atnews.mozilla.org:119 blank/blank
for posting to mozilla.support.firefox & mozilla.support.thunderbird
which, I think, no longer exists.

It lasted for a lot longer than the mozilla announcement, but at some
point Giganews removed the DNS entry, and then decomissioned the
server/setup that was serving news.mozilla.org. Near the end, I was
accessing it via the IP address.

Post by Indira
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.thunderbird
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.thunderbird/c/LjUuhd9rYi8

Now mozilla.support.seamonkey on Google Groups suffered the fate of
being flagged because of SPAM. Can you guess which server injected the
SPAM it most likely got flagged for?

https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey

Post by Indira
In summary - aren't they both already long dead?

(Gmane is well alive, along with gwene; for the three news.mozilla.org
groups mentioned above, there are three new groups under alt.*)

[Indira]

Post by Nuno Silva
Now mozilla.support.seamonkey on Google Groups suffered the fate of
being flagged because of SPAM. Can you guess which server injected the
SPAM it most likely got flagged for?
https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.seamonkey

What was amazing (in a bad way) was how much the google groups spam
increased a thousand fold in the past few months - as if someone found a
way around google's filters and Google decided not to bother fixing them.

All the news admins who offered no login posting access had to fold such as
Steve Crook (mixmin) or Paolo Amaroso (aioe) or Netfront (chinese owner).

The only one left is Ivo Gondanfo (paganini) and he restricts the number of
posts severely by group and IP address and badword content filters.

Others allow read only (like dizum or blueworld) without login/password
but that's not going to ever be the cause of all that recent Usenet spam.

The rest of the news admins who had login requirements managed to filter
just fine - which is why it's strange to me that Google couldn't do it.

I wonder if one or two spammers found a loophole & exploited it to its
death? Why would they do that? It's like killing your own child?

Post by Nuno Silva

Post by Indira
In summary - aren't they both already long dead?

(Gmane is well alive, along with gwene; for the three news.mozilla.org
groups mentioned above, there are three new groups under alt.*)

Thanks. I didn't know that. I haven't used Gmane for a long time
and when I want to post to the Firefox or Thunderbird groups, I use
alt.comp.software.thunderbird & alt.comp.software.firefox

I didn't even realize the "news.mozilla.org" groups still existed.